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Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Scoughman, Sep 30, 2017.
I try to keep it in the yellow, myself and not lower
Ok, so the concern is people who only participate in raids by spending Stamina to do attacks, not healing above the 1k required and hoarding the energy drops for use in Adventures/Jobs. It doesn't feel fair for these players to continually attack without healing, as this forces everyone else to spend energy to heal if they want to earn XP or kill the boss to get a drop. I didn't realize energy drops were such a draw for people, but we could certainly consider cutting them off below 50% as well.
@Kel the Merciful King I think people being active in more bosses on average is a good thing, I mean that should both improve party strength simply by having a larger party, and make bosses more likely to be successfully killed. Removal of wiping also means nobody will have to grind out a boss for reduced XP just to try and get the drop. Re: "automation", I would say our goal is to help raids be successful. If these people are joining raids and doing work, I think that's a good thing. If they aren't doing it in a way that encourages others (i.e. being "vampires"), we'd want to change incentives so they do, but at the end of the day if you don't want certain players in your raid it should be private. Otherwise anyone in the public lobby should be eligible to be a contributing member of a raid.
Actually I think it is more they save their energy for adventures, so they do the min heals and then attack when other heal or leave it healed, in one game there are a few, and their answer is, the game does not say they have to heal the damage and a few are high levels , some real high and to think they have low energy is ridiculous, they would rather use their energy for adventures, then heal their damage after they get the min heals in, but I do like the idea that would prob help
@Norse Les Bean The point of raids is for people to team up to defeat them, and so someone healing while you are attacking *should be* a good thing in terms of trying to kill the raid. If you are looking to get the most actions to qualify for a Superior drop, you're better off healing the raid as that counts as more actions (the # of actions is based on Eng/Stam spent, and the max for attacking is 20 stam vs. 25 energy for healing so each click counts as more actions.) I'm sorry, I'm still pretty confused - if you are hitting a raid and someone is healing without your permission, that's stealing, but then if the raid had the chance to be wiped, that stopped them? If they are healing then the raid wouldn't be wiped But then later you're saying people are trying to get the most actions by doing the opposite of what you're doing while the raid has low health... How can they qualify for the most actions if you have done 60k and they haven't? The goal of doing the raid is to kill the raid by doing tons of damage, and earn XP while you do it — if people are racing to do the most actions that's helping everyone ensure the raid is successfully won. I'm sure I'm still misunderstanding so if there's anything else that can help my dumb brain get it, please let me know!
Aside from that we will look into the XP for healing and see if we can alter any cap that exists, that might help improve healing. For whatever it's worth, Norse, we're not trying to force anyone to spend more - our goal is to try and help make the raids more fun and ensure more players get rewards. Any changes we're making here are intended to keep the amount of stam/eng required the same, so if that's not the case we'll do our best to equalize that. And we can also look into making the page jump or change somehow when you hit the 50% health XP reduction, so you know you're better off healing than attacking — that makes sense to me for sure. We do have a coloured health bar as well that should help display where the health is at.
Ok guys, clearly there are some aspects to this we may have missed, and I appreciate all your feedback here. What we're going to do is hold off on releasing any changes to the raids for tomorrow, and we'll sit down to hash out a more comprehensive change that should address your concerns. Hopefully we can roll something new out for the PC raid next week instead while giving you all a chance to review our "version 2" proposal. When we have a new plan I will make a new thread and link to it here so you can all participate.
Thanks again for all the input, it's players like you that help make the game what it is!
Energy is main part to be able to continue hitting raids, so yes it's important to get these drops. If dropping exp below 50%, I'd feel we need to work both sides with cutting off "vampires" energy drops below that same point. So we don't need to fill a raid from zero health to 50%, just to receive our max exp. in return. Simple concept really.
This would also help out some of the issues, I still think healing should give more exp than attacking.
I'd like to point out one more thing @ Scoughman, look at any "mid level and up account" and bet you 99.9% of the time they have more stamina than energy. With that being said, refills cost the same, yet get more exp attacking raids than healing them. Which route would you rather take with that being said? "attack or heal" a raid boss?
Yes i mean them how just attack raid and not heal.... will make no big diff with this change. the will just hit anyway.... And did notis that you did not answer my question about the Stam! We shall we be able to ad to more stam.... As i did say will prolly be my last raid i do... The cost is way to much as it is now... Wen not even can do 3 levels on a stam refill. And that do dam sucks
they only do min heal for items the reason they do no more is the xp is crap compared to stamina and why waste energy on a crap xp if u go do a job and get alot more make heals xp same as attacking and see how it changes
that may be true, but I am talking about the ones who say they don't have to leave it healed when they are done, the selfish ones, and then some dope goes to hit it without looking and perishes it, it does not happen to me cause mine are private, but it happens alot to the public ones, we all see it and pass the link around to show the vampires who do it all the time. Heal your damage fully when ya done, I don't care if people even do min actions, more for me,
This strength change really affected me for the worst! I am losing fights to people on my fight list that barely have any mob. People that I used to win fights from now I lose. This totally stinks considering I spent money buying hired guns, FP to buy loot, bought crates, I jumped in on harder bosses, etc. I'm very disappointed. My total A & D is pretty much worthless.
it is never too late to change course, thru the years we have had to for one reason or another, it is not impossible , just work on A & D
I think your reply whisked past a principal issue I made, where a group of 5 high level players get into all the raids using apparently automation. This shuts out others competitively so that they often do minimum damage to get an end drop is all they do. Vs. others who might hit them harder for superior drop range or more. That question of fairness during these events has to be addressed or you have the same 5 dead ones doing their thing using whatever means they do use. You can see this behavior on the first 3 days of the event. The 4th day they appear tired or are too busy taking care of what they have tapped to date. Note: they will try a boss in the feed; if it is closed, they will not try it again like a human would in a few minutes later. Never see this human like behaviour.
yes and no but with recent events of insane items now my fight list went from ok im getting beat to holy smack i got hit with a mack truck im talking like going from losing a little to being 1/3rd weaker as for lower accounts that used to beat me not so much but for my fight range since i built a raid boss character my att and def was neglected and its sucks big donkey whatever you want to put in place. its my own doing but it did make a big difference maybe too much i dont know and dont know how to even begin to try to fix anything in here it seems more we have added and changed has done nothing but really upset the pyshics of the game we started when it was first born....
Maybe, I did not write what is happening well enough. But, I am too tired to think about it now: It was a long day at work. I just want to make a point before this thread is closed.
There are many tier 1 players that raise raids and do damage in the millions. It is not uncommon to see damage done by these players that is 100,000,000 or more. I am assuming that they do not have the stamina or energy levels that I do. So, they are using large amounts of favor points to continuously do this damage. They are depending upon the energy drops to help them. If you cut the energy drops by 50%, is this fair to these players in this game? Because, I am assuming that you are going to make this raid change across all your games. There are more tier 1 players killing raids in ZB than in your other games. I am sorry about the energy vamps. But, should want they do penalize a whole tier? You have to think about them in your mix. They are helping you get your baby a new pair of shoes.
Obviously your to tired to read!!!!, it's not cutting energy drops per my example, it's if raid health dropped below 50% health=no energy drops.... You need to hit a raid health under 50% health?, your own fault.
Why comment even if to tired? Gather thoughts in morning and re-read my proposed semi-solution.........
It's pretty clear your game has issues of a harvester software getting into 1st or 2nd into every Raid I am seeing. 24x7, that is posted to the public feed. You are choosing to ignore it. It is not unnoticeable by customers and gamers. No point to playing the public raids with these tools in use. The only thing saving the raids is the tiers, and I don't know what other tier experience is like, if they are also being operated in lower tiers. The higher tier has in VC1 a harvester at work. 2 are active now. 1 or 2. 2 or 1, they are in each boss. Names are the same. Visible to everyone.
This is not a game like this.
One more thought on this, only remove the energy drops for attacking if raid health is under 50%, but keep energy drops for healing from 0-100% raid health...