Proposed Change- Boss Attacks (All Games)

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Kendall, Sep 21, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. confusing

    i was talking about time how fast we can level and again its perfect for new players who add stamina from start and than level 2000 they will have 4000+ stamina so to emty that on boss will be 5 min and level fast >>> and for player who did not invest stamina will be 2-3 hours to empty 1000 stamina to level up !!!

    so yea how about 4 stamina attack on normal player so i get 4 times of exp from one 4stamina attack lol

    so what do we get after all changes ? skill re locator ?
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010


    Bad Idea

    I agree, that your proposed changes, would be to the detriment of the game and would therefore cause an unusually high rate of loss of players. I , for one , would definitely quit playing the game. Can't you be more creative than that? Terrible idea to use up more points on power attacks. Please, rethink your ideas. It might get you more money in the short term, but in the long term, you will lose more money.
  3. Quake

    Quake New Member

    my main problem is if this causing server issues which is going to require a fix one way or another if players want a lagged up game continue your complaining if that is going to be what happens
  4. *wendah*

    *wendah* Member

    I use bosses to supplement leveling when there is no one present on the fight list but also and mainly for the drops.

    Most of my bosses are in the 20 and 30 levels and even 40...and depending how much im pimpin' the boss link, the lowers get nice drops and the boss closes quickly.

    In any event, either way, I spend way over 25 stamina to finish my bosses now, as long as the damage is just as much as those 25 stamina im spending having a hard time seeing the issue. If I use one hit to spend those 25 stamina anyway and it doesnt bog down the server then imo, it would be a win.
    Are people saying they use under 25 hits to kill their boss?

    We decide how much stamina we use and how to budget it. This really shouldnt change that from what I'm reading. IDK, i dont feel up in arms about this as the rest of you so maybe im just missin' something here.

    The only thing I would suggest is keeping the single attack since it doesnt always take 5 stamina to get that list hit finish the boss. No sense on wasting the other 4 stamin or 24 in this case.
  5. increase in stam per hit=potential wasted stam.a boss could need maybe 20 hits and if a power takes 25 thats 5 stam wasted.and 100% agreed on reg attacks.1 stam should be the amount per though and 5 stam per power hit.change it and the $$ flow will slow down alot.
  6. While this might definitely speed up my stamina expenditure and reduce my amount of time logged on to the game I'm not convinced that it is necessary. The bosses, especially in Pirate Clan are horrendously nerfed as it is (as of now on Viking they are just fine but these changes would nerf them as well). If anything I'd be in favor of doing away with power attacks and unlocks altogether since once you get past your first few bosses you dont really need them. I'm all in favor of higher level boss achievements and more bosses would be nice as well.
  7. yes unlocks are pointless anyway.they dont stay once the boss is done.power hitting it is ok but there should be no unlocks i agree with you on that.
  8. most people with the unlocks either buy into the misconception that there is some benefit to getting them when actually the extra time reduces total rewards for everyone, or the people that know they are useless use them as a way to spread the upper level weapons around. Abolishing the power attacks would serve as a way to allow people who have no other alternative to fighting bosses to attack to their hearts content and slow down the boss fight long enough to allow more people to come on board.
    i made a thread on this subject already.
    there is really no point in unlocking as there is no benefit.
    if im wrong on this by all means someone correct me.

    but talking towel is right that it actually shrinks everyones total rewards.
    those that want them i respect wishes and go after those that disrespect however i couldnt careless for them.unless unlocks give a advantage(like if you unlock the final power attack you get to use it for a very very limited time as a super attack against other players,then someone explain the point.)
  10. Eddie

    Eddie Member

    Lets please focus on the main proposal and not get side-tracked.
  11. *wendah*

    *wendah* Member

    ya i think we're in basic agreement and I do agree that the extra 5 stamina would be way too precious to waste. but I can also see where it might benefit the lowers where they might have to hit an uppers boss 40 times just to hit a reward.

    If there is an option to choose the 1,5,25 ect i would be ok w/that. im cheap w/stamina though cos i try and use the DJ points for more mateys vs. stamina refills. If I could only choose the 5 or 25 them imo, that's forcing us to waste stamina we might not need to.
  12. exactly the point right there
  13. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    1.. Regarding the $ making aspect of this new upgrade....Very simple... R u stating that these"proposed upgrades" will not make any additional monies for Kano? The only way, these "proposed upgrades" wont make money for Kano if U cram the "proposed upgrades" down our throats and the players reject them and and u begin to lose players. I definitely think that u will lose some players.....such as myself if these updates are implemented but probably not enough to hurt Kano in the long run. Another possibility is this.....If a player is able to expend there current stamina even quicker than what they r capable of now, that will mean they will begin their wait for stamina regeneration even sooner than they do now...meaning even more down time waiting to regenerate stamina... a total buzz kill that will lead to even more boredom and a potential loss of more players.

    On the other hand but IMO more likely, I see huge potential profit for Kano, I think that "casual players" allocate a certain amount of time to playing this game, for example player "A" plays daily from 6-8 pm, player "B" plays daily from 6-9 am etc. etc. These players are use to playing at these times and r not ready to get off the game until their allocated time has expired. What use to take player "B" 3 hrs to accomplish will now only take 1 hr, player ""b" will not have obtained/quenched his fix / thirst of playing for their normal 3 hrs, so what is player "B" to do u ask??? Fortunately for Kano....player "B" can either purchase God points or visit the "offers" page. I would compare this to the drug dealer giving out the free samples in order to get the unsuspecting person hooked, or the syndrom that keep casinos in the black, If ten people walk into a casino and win 5000 dollars within the first five minutes they r there, how many of those 10 will take their winnings and leave immediately? Approx. 20%...the other 80% will continue to give their winnings back to the casino because they have won to soon and not obtained there fix or quenched their thirst, which will only happen with time, which unfortunately and inevitably will almost always end with the same result...the players broke and the casino laughing all the way to the bank. VIVA LAS KANO!!!!

    The other Type of Player who invests much more time and potentially /most likely monies into the game will also be forced to choose whether or not they want to dig even further into their pockets just to stay competitive with the newer player that will have the full advantage of the new"proposed changes" that will allow them and only them the opportunity of achieving in a mere fraction of the time....what it has taken all others that came before them... months to do. . In essence, playing/relying on ones competitive hopes that they will refuse to give up what has taken them so long to achieve...remedy? The bank of Kano!

    Do I Think $ is the sole purpose for Kanos "proposed changes"? No. Without knowing much about computers and such, I tend to believe that Kano is being honest to a certain degree and that maybe the server will potentially be overloaded if some type of changes arent made. (more on this in another post). But hey,,,,how about upgrading the server???? Ive played other apps that r way more involved and have many more players and they seem to work just fine.

    So in closing boys and girls....Is money Kanos sole reason for wanting to implement these changes? Maybe not.....But what a really fortunate side effect for them. I do not begrudge Kano making money, why else is anybody in business, But I do take exception to them denying that it is one of their motives...and question why they feel the need to accomplish their goals of a healthier bottom line at the expense of the players who have made this game both successful and profitable in the first place.

    That my 2 cents, please stay tuned as i intend to spend at least a buck on this thread.
  14. POG1916

    POG1916 Member

    I LOVE THIS...for zombies..anyway
    it takes a long time when ur boss keep clicking ...when i know i am going to spend exactly the same amt of kill the boss
    that a few less clicks would be better..

    will you keep scaling it upwards for bosses over level 50
  15. Vampryss

    Vampryss Guest

    Top Poster Of Month

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Boss feature still in Beta? If thats still true then any changes made to the feature now doesn't mean it's the final release & changes are permanent. We could at least check it out & offer constructive feedback after the changes are made. :)
  16. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Thats an interesting point....but does the "beta" stage have a time limit? Im not sure exactly how long bosses have been a part of this game in comparison to how long the game has been in existence,, but I do know that they have been a part of the game a very long time..... long enough to have changed the entire face of the game as many of the games top players have gotten to where they have by using nearly exclusively or adapting to said bosses for leveling purposes.

    I think that if the ""proposed changes" were implemented on even a temporary basis there would be no way of ever turning back. The newer players who stand to gain the most from said "proposed changes" would then rise up and reject any "proposed removal" of said "proposed changes", and even if the new "proposed changes were " found to not to be a positive for the game, Those players who benefited the most from the time that the "proposed changes" were "in play" still would have had the benefit of killing and leveling against the same bosses much quicker than those of us who didnt at that stage of the game. TY.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  17. The Ice Queen

    The Ice Queen Member

    Oh I am not going to read all that hehehe.

    It's not about the number of attacks it takes to kill a boss or the time it takes.
    You will still use the same amount of stamina if I read it correctly.

    Why it takes so long to kill a boss is because the XP is horrendous!.
    The ones able to do the most damage don't want to touch most bosses.

    In LCN, even the shiny new bosses are becoming tarnished.
    The XP for level 10+ of the new Bosses is less than 300 for 5 stamina.
    I am better off chaining my Rival list after I am listed, running ambushes galore... the XP to Stamina ratio is still a lot better.
    The only reason the higher levels help with Ramirez and above is for the drops.

    IF you insist on bringing in this new change, you MUST do something about the regeneration for Stamina and Health. You promised it would be last week..... :(
  18. Kendall

    Kendall Administrator

    I did not expect to see this thread get so many replies or draw such a high interest, I think part of the issue is that I could have done a better job at explaining the reason / necessity for this change along with its impact which I will try to clarify once again but I also want to reply to the "Kano is doing this for $$$ and that is what they have to gain from it".

    Here is a little background on how Kano decides what features get prioritized. When we go through the decision making process on what features are next we do it with the primary concern being growth and engagement, I cannot recall a brainstorm where we came up with something where the reason was to make more $$$, we believe that if we can build a game that is fun and engaging that it will grow and people that want to / able to contribute $$ they will do so based on the entertainment value that they get from playing our games. These games are not free to maintain, develop and support so I will say this once more time when we release a feature or make a change it has to do based on the fact that we feel it will help make the game more engaging and help growth. If you are on top of the leaderboard of our games I would think our priorities are the same, you would rather be on top of the leaderboard on a game with more people playing rather than less.

    Now back to the topic at hand. Some good/valid points that have come out of this thread that we will have a look at and address are as follows:

    - why not do something similar to regular battles as well, 2x fights with one click/attack for example "attack twice for 2 stamina". This is something that we have considered in the past and we never related it to this change before but I do think that is a valid concern and something that we will take under serious consideration.

    - adventures / jobs / outbreaks is another area to look at but the issue is not the same since the energy requirement already scales with level

    Now to address the points that I do not quite see the validity in:

    - new players will stand to gain the most from these changes. Do you plan on not killing your bosses beyond level 10? Or new bosses that will be released in future new locations? Everyone in the game will see the same benefit, the only issue is that they may have been able to kill a level 10 boss in less total clicks but is that really an advantage? I am not talking about reducing 1000 actions into 1 click here, I think we can all agree that anyone can click a button 60 times in a minute but is that more or less enjoyable than clicking a button say 30-times in a minute? Rewards, XP will not change they will still be based on Health/Attack/Defense of your character and give the exact same stamina to XP payout.

    Now to clarify the why. All our games with the exception of ZS are over a year old now, a lot has changed, each time we add new achievements or make skill points per level adjustments we are increasing the skill point economy so what happens is we start to get some inflation going on. A side affect of this is that people have a lot more stamina than what a player would have had say a year ago at the same level, all other attributes Health and Energy combat this inflation in there own unique way each time a new location is added but stamina is the only option where a user does not really get a choice to use a variable amount so as they get more stamina the actions required to say continue killing the same boss over multiple levels or attacking the same person through levels will continue going up, to the point that we believe most people begin to lose interest in the game, so this is the balance that we are trying to find the # of actions required to keep something interesting as opposed to driving people away. Adding more achievements to bosses will drive more people to kill their bosses past level 10, we do not want to make this a tedious process, we want it to still be fun to play but at the same time we do not want it to provide zero challenge.

    Now for a bit of the technical/performance reasoning. A person clicking a button 100 times compared to say 50 times isn't really that big of a difference, depending on the speed of a persons internet connection both can be done in a comparable amount of time but what that does have a big difference on is the load and performance issues that can cause on a server. Adding more servers unfortunately is only a duct tape solution and will not solve the problem, adding more servers will make the game faster yes, but what will likely happen is that users will take advantage of this extra bandwidth by continuing to complete their boss actions even faster using up their +1000 stamina at 5 or 1 at a time and then we will be faced with adding even more servers but the main issue that the amount of stamina spent in an attack remains constant even as a boss gets much more difficult, requires more hits to kill and a user has even more stamina to spend.

    Next Steps:

    -we will look to build a solution that a user can configure, say spend 5 stamina for 1 power attack or 10 stamina for 2. The levels will be chosen to keep the bosses challenging but to give those users that do not find enjoyment in clicking a boss in say 100 attacks let them do it in 50 if they so choose but for those that want to click a button 100 times they can still do so.

    -will look into what we can do for mob/clan/slayer attacks, for those levels in the games where the XP required to level is appropriate.

    -in order to continue to reach for our goals of creating games that are enjoyable to play we will continue to actively develop and support all our games, it is typical to revisit a feature like that bosses after first release where we will make decisions based on how the feature is being used in ways we did not anticipate on initial release.

    OK, now that I have written a book, I am going to be quiet on this thread for a while as I need to keep plowing through my development list.
  19. I don't see any insurmountable problems with the idea. The only thing I'd take issue with is the potential loss of stamina at the end of the battle...
  20. Grim Reaper Griffin

    Grim Reaper Griffin New Member

    No good next idea please. How about more lands more bosses?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page