[All] make length of arena def. stance more proportionate to length of arena

Discussion in 'Ideas' started by polishpimp, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    This idea was brought up in another thread but it is different than the idea in that thread so i started a new one here so as not to detract from the other idea.

    Its important to note that Im talking about the arenas in kanoplay/ms only. There is a big difference between the number of players participating in the arenas from one platform to the next. In Kanopla/MS we are lucky to get in excess of 200 participants per arena.

    Once upon a time in an arena not all that long ago there was no such thing as the "multi attack slider". Arenas lasted a minimum of 10 hours which allowed accounts of different builds to attack and defend freely while no particular build had an advantage over the other.

    Even with the lower player participation rate than other platforms arenas lasted much longer than they do now because it was only one attack per. What this allowed players to do was last longer in the arena even if they showed up late. Why? Because even if players didnt start off in def stance it took much longer to kill them which allowed for time to pass in which others were not being attacked and killed off so quickly. One of the benefits of this was that even players that couldnt make it on time to the arena had a much better chance of still being alive once they did show up.

    Then one day the gods introduced the multi attack slider. At first many in arena land were happy as it allowed them to kill with ease. But much like sleeping beauties apple...we were unaware that the attack slider was poisoned. As delicious as that apple was ....its consequences would soon rear its ugly head. But then one day the the skies darkened as the evil villain known as MS arrived and banished us all from their kingdom and many of our fellow arena participants never made the transfer to the wonderful world of Kanoplay/ms. This had an awful effect on our once glorious arena as its participation numbers were more than cut in half. Now the once mighty arena went from taking 10 or more hours to about a third of that. Now Defensive players that had done nothing differently suddenly found themselves with more defensive stance than the arena was long and they were basking in the glory of sudden success and even winning the arena overnight while not even having to be at their computer let alone attacking anyone. The other more attack oriented players in which arena land was designed for now found themselves twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do while waiting for defensive stance to end.

    A once an epic strategic battle of the wits between defensive and attack oriented builds suddenly became a bland hurry up and wait for the players who didnt bother to show up event. The active players certainly couldnt blame the more defensive minded players...who could blame them for wanting free XP , coin and achievements? Who could blame them for wanting to hide the fact that most of them didnt actually have the skill to participate and be successful. I certainly dont blame them....if Kano made an error in judgement that totally benefited me I would ride that pony for all it was worth as well. Oh wait......I suppose i already did that as the multi attack slider has most likely benefited me more than anyone else in that I now achieve the same results but in a fraction of the time. Im starting to wonder why Im even up here advocating to change things. Oh....thats right....I actually have this crazy thing about fairness that just wont let me be.

    The fact is that the arenas here in kanoplay/MS were essentially changed overnight. With the drop in player count and the advent of the multi attack slider the duration of the arena was drastically altered. When that happened the formula in which time in def stance should have been adjusted as well so as to keep things more proportionate to how they once were. By not doing so one segment of the player population has been given a huge advantage that was not earned in anyway. What it has done is make a mockery of the stated intent fofthe arena by Kano themselves.

    What I suggest be done will have no undeserved negative impact on any of the arena participants and bring the arena back to a much more level playing field. It will not affect SP allocation players did prior to or after the arena began

    1. Adjust the formula that dictates how much defensive stance a player has. This will affect all players equally. Any defensive advantage a player had over another player will be exactly the same as it was before. What it will do is shorten the amount of defensive stance all players have. The only difference being that players will not be able to ride out an entire arena in def. stance. This does not mean that a player who does not participate at all or as much wont/cant still do well. Just like like before when the arena lasted much longer....players still flew under the radar and ranked well. If players are at least watching their account and not actively attacking they can still use their defensive stance strategically to insure a higher rank.


    2. Eliminate the attack slider all together until participation numbers increase or better yet....Make the attack slider adjustable so it better reflects the number of participants. What this will do is also lengthen the arena and ensure that players can not just sit in defensive stance the entire duration. The attack slider being adjustable depending on the number of participants would make things fair for all arenas on all platforms in that each would be adjusted to each of the participation numbers separately. Strictly for examples sake.....1-249 participants= 1 attack per, 250-499 participants = 2 attacks per, 500-1000 participants = 3 attacks per etc etc etc
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  2. Demonik1

    Demonik1 Well-Known Member

    I agree, but heres another option...leave the slider at one until an opponent reaches critical levels of health...that would make it still take longer to bring someone down from full health PLUS makes it harder for people to snipe your kills. that way they could leave dmode formula exactly how it is
  3. ben

    ben Active Member

    so ya really wanna just make it where high levels win every time?? by implementing what your suggesting youve made it where the low and mid levels have no chance at all...at least with the slider and defense mode as it currently is the lower and mid levels actually have a better shot than previously.. after all...if ya wanna help the lower and mids as ya claim..leave it as is...if ya secretly wanna make sure the highest of levels always win then eliminate the slider and shorten d time and then those already dropping number will drop to bout 10 players entering..ya really want the arena gone...
  4. ben

    ben Active Member

    so ya wanna roll out the red carpet to the highest levels by leaving slider at 1 until a certain point?? youve just screwed the low and mid level players if that gets implemented...
  5. ben

    ben Active Member

    how many threads are gonna be made on this???its becoming spam with all these threads about the slider... kano you really need to come in and just say your stance on this..is anything going to change far as d mode time or the slider? we really need these multi threads on the same subject to stop.. please ksno please just say if your making changes to the slider or d mode time...
  6. JADES

    JADES Well-Known Member

    My only ? is why you put this for (ALL) as you said this is for Kanoplay/MS, I know that "not option to do it" but yet misleading again, FB has way for players and this is deceiving to those who that did not notice it.
  7. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Your kidding right? My opening remarks were that this was about kanoplay/ms....if someone doesnt "notice it" ...thats on them. As far as "all" goes I mean "all" kanoplay/ms games as they are "all" very short on arena participants.
  8. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Ive no problem with your idea if thats what Kano and the other players wanted to do. I know that some players have said that they think the slider has cut down on sniping but to be honest....Ive not noticed any difference what so ever...I still snipe em and still have plenty sniped. The only real difference it seems to me is that the ones I have sniped dont bother me as much as they use to because it didnt take me nearly as long to take them down only to lose it. But like I said...Im cool with it if everyone else is
  9. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    High levels already win every time. In fact the slider has only made it easier for me to win. Seeing as Ive won more arenas than anybody both before and after the slider and am the only player to have won arenas in more than one game....who would know this better than me? You? Care to elaborate on why u actually think lengthening the arena helps higher levels? While your at it please start paying attention to the arena results...since the arena was shortened more high levels have ranked higher due to there high health. As u well know we also had a high level win an arena without even having one attack and this was after the arena was shortened. More than likely that would not have been the case had the arena been longer.

    The fact is that low to mid levels have the slimmest of chances of ever winning an arena under either scenario. The fact is that with a longer arena low to mid levels have much more opportunity to rack up some levels whether they rank well or not. Your good buddy TP is a perfect example of that. Being that under the current scenario low and mid levels stand very little chance to rack up the levels they once did, if a solid rank is what they are looking for then they stand even less of a chance at levels as they will need to sit in Defensive mode the entire time. So yes....I would both love to help out the low to mid levels and make the arena what it was suppose to be....an aspect of the game for players who actually like PVP. Maybe the participation number will drop and maybe they wont...the only way to know for sure is to try it....wasnt that your argument when you were advocating for 10 attacks per on the slider? In the end I would prefer that the number didnt drop but Ide be perfectly ok with it if it meant the arena was more in keeping with what it was suppose to be and didnt allow for unfair advantages and didnt promote inactivity. In my opinionI really dont think the numbers would fall off at all, players will still sign up for the free XP and a shot at getting lucky.
  10. mi7ch

    mi7ch Administrator

    I don't see a problem with polish making a separate thread to address an issue that's similar but different than the one you currently have ongoing, ben. Makes sense not to have two separate conversations going on in one thread.

    As for any comments we may have on the Battle Arena, I believe the last thing we said about that still holds: re-examining this mode is on our list of "to-dos" so when the time comes to discuss it, you can bet that I'll be making a thread on that looking for feedback.

    I understand that we're all passionate about the games and, as a wise Jedi Master once said we must "mind our feelings". Talking about the games is all well and good, but let's not get too nasty, alright? When people get nasty I tend to go on a thread-locking spree, and you don't want that. >:)
  11. The Protector

    The Protector Banned

    Pimp...even on myspsce there was never 500 in the aena...so how can you those figures???...
    Anf those 2 arenas where I did rack up some levels..i had help the 2nd time...

    D mode time is fine the way it is currentlt...chanfing it now by shorting it and skill reallocatiom would be warranted as what was once a strategy would be taken away and woulf have a drastic impact on players games as some are built tailored for the arena....

    1 star all the way around for all the right reasons..

    Over in pc kps2 arena we wait out d mode all the time..nothing wrong with it..somwone there ha close to 5hrs it seems or at least well ovee 4hrs...waiting them out is tedious but its a legit strategy on there part..props to them for that build...even though there enemu they deserve the time they earned..even lowering it by 1 second would be unjust...

    in the end this is a legir strateget...now onto the slider as that is mentioned in the OP.

    The slider is ther best thing that happened to the battle arena...little and mid levels now have a better shot at keeping the kill they worked on...less chance of it getting sniped..can still obviouslt get sniped as on pc arena when slider was at 10 i had a kill sniped...but with the slider kills arent being sniped as much and actually gives lower and mid levels a shot at knockinh out the big boys and gals..after all the arena is suppose to be fair to all builds not just balanced...

    So in recap...d mode time that high defense players earned should be left alone..the time was earned they deserve to have all of it and use as much of it as they want at a time...even if they dont attack and ust ride it for whatever amount of earned time they have earned that time so they deserve every second of it and to say they dont is just absurd...mybe they just want to ride the arena...that is a legit strategy...not getting 100 attacks in...where in the rules does it say someone actually has to get 100 attacks in?it doesnt...should that chsnge? no it should stay untouched...

    Should the slider be eliminated? absolutely not...the slider is how the lower and mid levels can pull off the next to impossible and thgats knocking out the big boys and gals...slider combined with search..yep lowers and mids have a better chance now at killing the giants in the arena...

    Questioms for Kano...

    1) is there any plans on removing the slider or dialing it back?

    2) is the slider going to stay at 3 from now on end of story?

    3) is d mode time going to be lowered?

    4) is d mode time going to be altered where if someone doesnt attack they can only use so much of it?

    5) if game changing changes are made in regard to this..will skill reallocation be allowed? as a drastic impact would occur.
  12. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Reallocation would not be needed because what ever edge ap layer has earne through allocation after the slider was implemented would not be altered in any way.....obviously u dont understand my idea.

    besides....if reallocation would be warranted for removing or altering the slider than reallocation would be warranted for implementing the slider in the first place because it changed the entire arena and the arena was without the slider longer than its been around with ...so way more SP would have been allocated before the slider.

    Everything else youve stated is completely inaccurate. Not sure if your just misinformed or you havent been paying attention to the actual results. More high level players are ranking among the the top than ever before...why? because they have more defensive stance than others and the arena is now much shorter. FACT!
  13. JADES

    JADES Well-Known Member

    Well old code still there I'm sure PIMP, put back to 1 on your game is best idea than rewriting code to lower defense time.
  14. Larry Skary

    Larry Skary Member

    The way i see this is that the ones against this idea refuse to see how the arena has changed and refuse to admit it is not right with someone getting rewards for doing nothing because all the have is Def. stance.
  15. JADES

    JADES Well-Known Member

    I'm not against it Larry, as PIMP said before slider help's for him, not looking for it through every "book" he writes for a post, simple fact though, PIMP said this was not a problem before slider=return it to it's original state, not reduce defense time to make it easier for a player online that want's the arena to be shorter.
  16. Demonik1

    Demonik1 Well-Known Member

    youre wasting your time polish, you should just stop playing the arenas and do what the rest of the whiney haters do and stay in dmode till its over. that should make an all out battle so much more fun...in fact...EVERYONE should just stay in dmode thru the whole thing and do nothing at all, that's what the arena was meant to be
  17. The Protector

    The Protector Banned

    Pimp...if defense time is shortened..many players wouldnt pump as much points to defense as many are..so yes skill reallocation would be warranted as what was a legit strategy would be no longe and would have drastic impact on games..

    And Pimp...even though the slider can help low and mids knock the giants out..the arena was designed for high levels with no battle list..so chances are good a high level will always win...after all..didnt ya once say yasekf it was for high levels...

    and not entirelt true about high levels having more defense time than smaller levels...just look at kps2 pc arena..someone in the 4000s(theres lots of 4000s so no im not implying anyone)has probably the highest defense time in the game..over 4hrs probably closer to 5hrs now..waiting it out is time consuming but that time was earned and they deserve every second of it to use when and how they want..

    So you earned a paid vacation..but your told how to take it...really??? thats what your basically saying if you wanna lower defense time..
  18. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    lol....it sure does feel like it some times....but Ive never been to one to give up easily.

    Ive considered just sitting in defensive mode the entire time but in the end it wouldnt do any good. Even in the arenas I havent played in another higher level player wins. For me...ideas like this, yours and other similar ideas has always been about giving the majority of players an opportunity to earn more while bringing the arena closer to its intended purpose.

    I know that you get it. Your a player that enjoys the PVP aspect and your main purpose of playing in the arenas is to level up and get them drops. Where as our esteemed colleague here just doesnt get it. It has nothing to do with who wins....the results both before and after the slider have proven that the high levels still stand the best chance by far. The real issue is the length of the arena and the amount of opportunity players such as yourself and others haveto level up if they want to.

    Some players will always just sit in Defensive stance regardless of how long the arena is because they just cant be there or because all they care about is the free XP. The problem with the now much shorter arena is that the players who actually do want to play the arena as intended have far less opportunity. Active players are picked off first..there is no choice but to pick them off first or at least force them into Def stance as early as possible so there is less waiting around for them later. Active players are the minority so they are easy to find...opportunity over. Even when def. stance begins to run out for the majority the active players are sitting there waiting for them and pick em off one by one....once again....end of opportunity.

    When the arena was longer due to 1 attack per it would take much longer to take down and kill an opponent compared to the mere seconds it now takes. For every extra minute it took for someone like myself or you to take out an opponent it was an extra minute that a lower level player had to be out there amassing health, picking up XP, drops and leveling. For every couple extra minutes it took to take a player out was a couple extra minutes closer to the masses coming out of defensive stance once again increasing opportunity for those that want to play the arena as it was intended and actually gain something from it.
  19. The Protector

    The Protector Banned

    Currently waiting out defense time...oh well its no big deal.

    No use singing about it or anything though.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  20. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    "Pimp...if defense time is shortened..many players wouldnt pump as much points to defense as many are..so yes skill reallocation would be warranted as what was a legit strategy would be no longe and would have drastic impact on games.."

    Why wouldnt they continue pump points into defense? Did they not add to def. before the arena was shortened? Was there not more need to allocate to defense before the arena was shortened and they couldnt ride it out? Regardless of how long an arena was there will always be need for defense. If the arena lasted longer there would actually be a need for more defense for the players that prefer to play a defense minded strategy if they indeed wanted to make it further into the arena. There are pros and cons to adding to any attribute both in game and in the arena, that wouldnt change a bit by changing how long an arena lasted.

    And Pimp...even though the slider can help low and mids knock the giants out..the arena was designed for high levels with no battle list..so chances are good a high level will always win...after all..didnt ya once say yasekf it was for high levels...

    The longer the arena the better chance low to mid levels have of knocking out a high level player if there is an actual concerted team effort with or without the slider. The slider makes it easier and faster to get a kill reward especially for the higher level who wins the majority of their battles whether attacking or being attacked. If a team of low to mid level players attacked me for instance they will still individually be losing on most of their attacks thus allowing me the time to ....A) Go into defensive stance myself, regroup and look for targets to snipe(which is way easier with the slider btw)..or...B) simply ignore the attacks and attack another target and gain more health in mere seconds. All the while the lower levels attacking me are actually losing massive amounts of health which makes it even easier for me or someone else to pick them off. Now if the arena was longer due to no slider and only having 1 attack per and a team was attacking me I could still go into Defensive stance but targets to kill would take much longer for me to take out and get their kill reward. What this does is greatly increase the chance of me running out of defensive stance making me a sitting duck. Ide still be a tough kill but the chances of taking me out would vastly improved.

    The arena was sold to us as an option for players that liked the PVP aspect of the game but found themselves with little or no rival list, which in most cases is the higher level players. So whats your point? Despite extreme handicaps the higher levels still have the best opportunity to win(as they should). But as Ive stated numerous times.....this idea has nothing to do with who wins...its all about allowing the opportunity to reap some benefit for all the other players that actually like PVP. Players that are out there spending stamina and supporting these games by actually being there playing it. Players that dont want to be active can be completely inactive in the regular game why must they make the arena something it wasnt intended to be? As much as I would like to see everybody active in the arena I totally get that its not realistic for a multitude of reasons. I even understand and respect that some players are more defensively minded and they want to use that to as much advantage as they can. But in no way should it be scaled in such a way that it gives them more of an advantage nor should it take away from the intent of the arena or promote inactivity.

    and not entirelt true about high levels having more defense time than smaller levels...just look at kps2 pc arena..someone in the 4000s(theres lots of 4000s so no im not implying anyone)has probably the highest defense time in the game..over 4hrs probably closer to 5hrs now..waiting it out is time consuming but that time was earned and they deserve every second of it to use when and how they want..

    My comment in regards to higher levels having more time in defensive stance was not intended to imply that it was the only reason higher levels do well, of course there are other variables as well. Its important to note that we are speaking in general terms and averages....there will always be exceptions to the general rule. But with that said two things come to mind......1) is a level 4k a low level? that certainly wasnt your stance when we were debating about "teamwork" when we took out the top player in PC those times. Back then u argued that player at or around that level were high leveled players and that the highest level player shouldnt be used as the "bar" when determining what was and wasnt a high level. 2) I dont know if your statement is true or not about a player having 4-5 hours of defense...Ive never seen anyone even close to that in any of the games or if its even possible. But if it is....all the more reason to scale back the amount of time in defensive stance to be more proportionate with the length of the arena.

    So you earned a paid vacation..but your told how to take it...really??? thats what your basically saying if you wanna lower defense time..

    Why is it so hard for you to understand that nobody is disputing that whatever defense someone has is somehow not legit? Im yet to see anybody say or even imply that. The whole issue is the length of the arena that was cut by 2/3 overnight. Players went from having enough Defense to ride out approx 1/3 of an arena to overnight having the ability to ride out the entire arena. That a complete game changer in that it was handed to them and not earned. You can argue till your blue in the face about how players allocated Skill points because of the length of the arena after the slider was implemented but the same can be argued for how skill points were allocated before the slider as well. Considering that the arena was around much longer without the slider than it was with.....how is your argument valid? At best you have it completely backwards!
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013

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