[VC] Missing Level Achievements

So you want achievements for levels that some people have already gained & you want it to be a priority. How about making achievements for actually doing something? Everybody levels, bring in achievements that have to be earned.

 

Actually, I'm not disagreeing with you, Polish. I have no issue with more achievements. I just think there are bigger fish to fry right now and they should take a back seat to the rampant cheating. It's to the point on FB that level 2k's are jumping from 1k bounty kills to ten times that much in a matter of a few months as they run their bots for hours on end. It's completely ridiculous at this point.

Appeasing 1/10th of 1/4th of 1% of the community (or even just 1/4th of 1%) isn't going to stop the exodus. Giving everyone a level playing field will, in my opinion. Kano actually showing that they care about the integrity of the game holds a little more significance in the eyes of most of the people that pay to play. Recently, a level 15k+ in FB left the game altogether. Part of the reasoning being that Kano doesn't care what happens as long as the check clears. I think it's a damn shame when longtime players leave because of something like that. Viking Clan has gotten very LordOfTheFlies-like in terms of what people feel like they can get away with. The perception is if you want a mini? No problem. Want a bot to hunt for you? No problem. Want a healer or an autoclicker? No problem. The check didn't clear? We have a problem. I don't think Kano is intentionally trying for this reputation but it's there, none the less.

I agree with you about the game being better before bosses, lotteries, challenges, etc, took over. The game was much more active as a whole. But, as my grandpa used to say, that there's a whole 'nother discussion, though.

I think anyone that actually believes that adding achievements that will effect, at most, half a dozen people on the game will somehow stop the exodus or make the community happier has a myopic view of what's actually going on. When the achievements come, and they will I'm sure, those people won't miss out on them. They'll get a lump sum all at once. So let's let Kano actually catch some cheats for a while instead of brushing it off to the back burner in favor of pandering to one whiney person as they've always seemed to do.

If it makes you feel like all is right with the world, I can tell you that you suck every once in a while. LOL!

 

Yeah...I understand the whole cheating thing being a priority...wasnt my intention to imply that it shouldnt be....of course it should be a priority. But it should have been the highest of priorities a loooong time ago. In the mean time...achievements are probably the easiest thing Kano could ever do. Im not talking only about one particular category of achievements but all of them....there are but a small handful that arent waaaay past due ...many that should have been updated years ago. Even When they updated a few the last time all but the level achievements were still behind a large segment of players. Kano seems to be of the mindset that lofty achievements tend to discourage players and I personally think that borders on the absurd. I havent met very many players that dont use achievement as stepping stone to keep them moving forward in a game that can become very monotonous at times. So in the end...while working to rid the cheats....would it really be all that difficult or time consuming to update the achievements bringing them more in line with what players have already done and motivate them to keep plugging along during these dark days of Kano games? Do I think adding achievements is going to stop the bleeding? No....but with the numbers being what they are can we really afford to lose anymore? I think its pretty obvious that what Kano has done to this point simply isnt working....they can add all the content they want but if you dont have the players count to take full advantage of it then no amount of new content is going to help. Achievements do sound a lil insignificant in the big scheme of things but in these troubling times why not infuse the hardcore players that have stood by them with a lil burst of enthusiasm when they log on tomorrow and find a bunch of goodies waiting for them and bunch more reason to keep on fighting the good fight. Im certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed but I think I could whip out the entire gamut of achievement updates needed that would be perfectly in-line with what Kano has already done in short order. So yes...catching and stopping the abuses should be top priority.....but lets not abandon everything else in the meantime.


BTW...you suck! lol

 

I think it's safe to say that you guys would like some more achievements!

As always, I'm happy to pass this on to the developers! I'll make sure they're extra aware of it.

 

What gave you that idea? lol

 

Just a hunch, you know, my natural intuition as a Community Manager. To put it another way, my "Spidey-Sense" was tingling.

 

If you actually read what I wrote, you'd note that I'd prefer Kano put more time into catching cheaters instead of snapping to attention at the request of one player. But if that's how this is going to play out I'm going to expect immediate service for everything *I* ask for from now on.

 

good point

 

Kano: you make a promise, you keep it or you don't. Not my problem!

I think the point of the thread is missed. The game is about competition and having a competitive game. As part of the competition, there are achievements. If Kano had not back in May said what they said at the start of this thread, there would be no thread here. I may be advocating on behalf of 5 or 6 others at this very moment, who are waiting for action, but its the future of the game my concern. With nothing to do further, what is the point? Snooze for a year to get a battlefield composed of folks with the latest adventure drops and crafts? Even those dozens of people will be going "Where are my level achievements?" Or will they be looking forward to future ones? In May's announcement they would be forward looking.

While some parties may wish to hijack the thread to other issues that yourselves see as important, I could seriously say that I don't see the cheating that is said to exist, where it is "appearing" to them. I do see that unaided skilled players can do the things that are being done in the main. I do see that there is a serious increase in bounties taken just as there is a serious increase in listings available to be taken some created by the Developers themselves. Fundamental search and duration theory explains the increase in success here.

Story time: there once was a guy who would get 40% of all bounties in VC while he was playing. Someone else who was not as good at getting them (envy, greed, anger, ignorance...) pulled out a pencil and with the stats of the person, calculated that he got x bounties per day, and if he showered for 12 minutes, shaved for 5 minutes, worked for 8 hours, commuted ... slept and gasp ate, if he used his total leisure time remaining for VC, he was grabbing bounties at a rate of 1 bounty per 2 and 1/2 minutes and this would be impossible, and must cheating! The person shared that with another person and another, and that logic was sent in to the "Developers." The Bounty Hunter in question was suspended and investigated. In the investigation the hunter provided his techniques to the developer by screen camming it to them in a nice narrated movie. Cleared. 100%. Of course the envious misunderstanding outsiders were pissed, plotted more, whined but lost. They did not know how he did it. And still didn't and still don't. And well eventually, the word got back to the hunter, that his close buddies had turned him in, and were trying to poison his other relationships. Wonders never cease. To finish the story, the 3 individuals who reported him, were "two screeners" using their own and another person's account at the same time. Wonderful. One of them admitted only a small part of their cheating right here publicly in this forum, to no approbation whatever by the "Developers" and carried on playing. The part of their revelation they left out, was the time and levels they attained for others, healing for them while in their accounts, so they could maximize their own XP per stamina. Gaining 100 levels yourself by cheating is light so the sanctimonious declaration went. Keeping another player less zealous, competitive with you, by doing 1000's of their levels is another . PS The player who confessed carried on playing for another year or two, and spent 0,000's of dollars, for in the end, nothing: "This account is no longer available" for their family of accounts.

The moral of this story, is there are always angles to play in this online game that no one will really know about, except the famous "Developers", and even in that case, through voluntary disclosures and reports, and technical checks and trails, the game cannot be made "cheat" proof. Suffice it to say, gains made by cheats are not ones that 'stick' permanently and live in the realm of being lost, just like a tax evader, fraud artist, cheating spouse, etc. The risk to their actual character is at present blurring the lines between a game played anonymously v. a social networking game, raising the stakes and may result in some circumstances, "alts" being removed v. "mains" for example.

My concluding point: this game is for entertainment purposes only. While the expectation of some parties is that the gaming company will catch all cheats and apply the TOS universally, that TOS or TOU itself has no promise to it that anyone can enforce. Anyone can plead to their own interests, all they like. You can provide screen shots of activities. You can say and continue to say x, y, and z are cheaters etc. In so doing, you expose yourself to a credibility check, not just at the developer end but in the public end of other players. While some may enjoy the verbal bbq of a competitor, others see that what is said indicates that that party has no knowledge of what is in reality going on, indicates even mental illness, or if they judge them of having solid knowledge, get discouraged and in the end, quit a game of "cheats." Unfortunately, that is part of the game too, to create and to exploit perceptions. Some are good at it. Some need a lot of work.

Simply stated, a promise made is a promise to keep. Kano made one at the start of this thread. Deal with it.

 

*Sigh* Here we go again... I'll TRY to keep this as civil as I can so this thread remains open.

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"The game is about competition and having a competitive game."

The competition aspect is tainted when someone uses "allowed adaptive technology" and alt accounts against someone who abides by the terms of usage. That's not competition. That's an unfair advantage and it's well past time that Kano addresses that.

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"I may be advocating on behalf of 5 or 6 others at this very moment, who are waiting for action, but its the future of the game my concern"

In reality, it's three. Not counting yourself? Two. So now you're up to 3/10ths of 1/4th of 1% of the gaming population. Which is the higher statistical probability? That the game will go belly up because three people, all over level 17k, didn't get their achievements in the timeframe that they thought they should (only one has whined about it from what I've seen) or because thousands more have decided that spending money on a game infested with alt accounts and bots isn't worth it? Those three people must spend a LOT!

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"While some parties may wish to hijack the thread to other issues that yourselves see as important, I could seriously say that I don't see the cheating that is said to exist"

Player Bans August 19 - August 23
As a reminder, the following numbers are permanently frozen accounts, and don't count temporary freezes.
FB: 51
KPs2: 97

That's 148 accounts that were permanently banned THIS WEEK ALONE for cheating. You're either a compulsive liar or a slack jawed idiot. Your choice.

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"I do see that unaided skilled players can do the things that are being done in the main. I do see that there is a serious increase in bounties taken just as there is a serious increase in listings available to be taken some created by the Developers themselves. Fundamental search and duration theory explains the increase in success here. "

These sentences are gibberish intended to confuse the reader but I'll play along simply because I love the sciences. I will agree with you that more bounties being placed DOES mean more will be collected. That's Math 101. You should have stopped there because I have no idea what you're trying to do by using Eddington's Fundamental Theory to back your claim. It's not even a true theory. It's a hypothesis that's been called a theory thanks to sci-fi writers. See? You can't apply quantum mechanics to the gravitational field in the same manner in which you can the electromagnetic field. It doesn't work. Never has. Eddington spent the last twenty years of his life trying to fit that particular square peg into that particular round hole. He wound up dying without making any significant advances in his hypothesis. The renormalization process always, always, ALWAYS breaks down. So until someone out there figures out how to combine general relativity and quantum mechanics, this will continue to be an unsolved problem in physics. That being said, I'm sure everyone here can agree with your postulate that more bounties flying means more people will catch them. Please reread the last two sentences of my previous answer.

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"Story time:"

No thanks. You type like Yoda on a bad acid trip and I don't have an enigma machine handy.

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"the game cannot be made "cheat" proof."

The sheer number of bannings this week alone indicates that the game can be cleaned up significantly and that more time is needed to address the situation instead of queuing up achievements that effect 3/10ths of 1/4th of 1% of the community.

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"While the expectation of some parties is that the gaming company will catch all cheats and apply the TOS universally, that TOS or TOU itself has no promise to it that anyone can enforce."

Wow. Simply wow. First, I should think EVERYONE would expect Kano to apply the TOU universally. If not, please provide a list of people that the TOU should not apply to. I'd be interested in seeing that list. As I'm sure many others would be as well. Is it based on gender lines? Economic? Racial? Sexual prowess? What's the criteria? Not only that but to then go on to outright say that Kano can't enforce their own terms of use is not only an indication of the sheer magnitude of your hubris but could also be construed as a not so subtle admission of guilt on your behalf. Seriously. How big an ego does one have to have in order to try to make THAT statement???

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"Anyone can plead to their own interests, all they like."

As you've clearly demonstrated.

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"Simply stated, a promise made is a promise to keep. Kano made one at the start of this thread. Deal with it."

Ok. Using your logic, simply stated, the first promise Kano ever made was the terms of use. So stand in line. There were no promises made at the beginning of this thread. Here's a direct quote. "We will be releasing level achievements today that go up to 17,000 and have additional achievements queued up to catch up with the top players." Did they release achievements up to 17k? Yes. That was the only thing close to a "promise" and they followed through with it. Unless you have firsthand knowledge that you'd like to share with us, you have to assume that they have the rest queued up as they said. Nowhere did they give a specific timeframe of any sort in either the pace they'd take in the process, how many top players would need to attain those goals in order to make it cost effective for them to dedicate man-hours to it, or when the end result would be finalized.

In short... take your own advice and deal with it.

 

What has been missed is that those who use adaptive technology are entitled to use it, period. Its a policy. It does not make a handicapped person a better player than any other player, but it does give them a chance to play. The March of Dimes provides same. So do other firms. If you ask Kano support they have an inclusive policy. Instead you think that "cheats" use it. They don't. They usually use top end equipment, and rather than cheat, have superior skills and relationships in a social network, than the complainers.

There are at least that many missing level achievements in Kano games.

It would appear that a certain group of people, constantly bombarded with messages like this, repeated ad nauseum, contain also the people who would be termed quitters. When I get a message from a long time player who says they are sick of it and are leaving, well they do point fingers and they do lay blame. Guess where? Rhetorical.

The logic displayed to come to any conclusions misleads one of the ignorance of that person making such statements. The alts are entirely different matter than the active cheats operating in the game. Dormant accounts that belong to cheats are included in those stats. I know of many who were closed this week that did not do a thing in the game but sit. These are not the "cheats" that are using anything to play this game because these accounts are not active. The ones being inferred as "cheats" have not been touched. Of course, that will not be stated.

They only appear to confuse the ignorant disrespectful types who do not wish to actually engage in a discussion to resolve issues.

Again, none of the "characters" - not players - banned are implicated in any of the suspicious activities that have been mentioned elsewhere in the forum or claimed as "cheats" by the fringe groups. None have been active in some way, gaining an advantage over those within standard play.

I am not going to make a political football here of Kano's efforts, particularly when the effectiveness of that effort is really unknown and has to be taken on an "as is" basis. Alts? They are cheating at the lowest level of concern when the main character is untouched, to the concerns expressed in this forum.

Amazing lack of comprehension, in reading for what wants to see v. the reality of what was stated. The game is an entertainment. Simple. Nothing more. Nothing less. On a best efforts basis, they are making it as good as they can, for the intent of the game they wish to encourage. There are no refunds. There is no warranty. Babbleheads can see what they want in the Quixotic worlds they live in.

Yes how many as if it were our business? Its not. Its how you run a game on the Internet and how your attract and retain customers. If you fail in your promises or over promise, and under deliver, I know that creates perception issues. Unfortunately, for the non-competitive, they lay blame v. trying to solve the problems. They publicly and privately decry the rampant cheating lines, hollering to the wind, of all this stuff going on that in truth, is only their ignorance of the broader gaming world and how the skilled and competitive players carry on, carrying on.

The fact remains. This thread is about what Kano said. Not anyone else. And those destructing the thread, good luck to you. In fact, play the game for an hour please. I feel like playing with you

 

I'm going to try again slowly. If anyone here can decipher his answers for me, please feel free to PM me. Thanks.

1. You've been asked before yet continually dodge the question. Therefore, can someone, ANYONE, from Kano PLEASE give me some examples of "allowed adaptive technology" and in what instances they would be allowed. Whether it be subtitles for the hearing impaired that play the game, autoclickers for quadriplegics and amputees, or braille monitors for the blind. Anything. I would sincerely like to know what services Kano offers it's handicapped gaming community so this can be put to rest. Once again, private messages are fine. Thank you.

2. There are at least three people missing level achievements in Kano games? There are EXACTLY three if you check the world leader board. Your writing is, at best, difficult to decipher and, at worst, some sort of Klingon dialect so I'm going to guess that you didn't intentionally agree with me here. Perhaps you meant three people in each game? We'll say five to make the math easier. Keep in mind that's almost double of the actual number. So, just on FB, that comes to twenty people total in all of the games combined. Twenty out of how many thousands? The percentage does not change significantly in the least bit. The best you could possibly hope for, even by cooking the books, would be 1/4th of 1% so my logic still holds true. That the needs of a vast statistical minority do not outweigh the needs of the vast majority no matter how many levels they've attained.

3: "The logic displayed to come to any conclusions misleads one of the ignorance of that person making such statements." That's a double-negative. When one "misleads their ignorance" they're actually making intellectually true statements. Alt accounts are cheats whether they sit or not. It is in the terms of use whether you like it or not. I know of a young man who happened to have an alt account that pretty much sat all the time... unless he needed help with a slap kill, wanted to drain his enemy of coin by getting his alt bountied, or stamina by provoking his enemy to attack the alt instead of his primary account. Implying (NOT INFERRING) that using alt accounts isn't cheating unless they're being used as a leveling partner or with regular frequency is an assinine statement to make.

4: I'm all for resolving issues. I just don't think achievements that effect three people should be a priority over something that effects three thousand. The funny thing is that when I started doing the math, I almost halved my estimate on number of "real" players in the game to cover the alts. You've unintentionally strengthened MY position with your specious claim that alts aren't doing anything. Either the alts are inactive, in which case there are legitimately 7800+ people in the game, or the alts are in full use, which means that your implication that alts are harmless little abandoned accounts is patently untrue. Once again, you know what your choices are based on some of my previous responses. If it's the former then that makes the percentage of people having to stand in line for their achievements that much more insignificant. Those man-hours are DEFINITELY better served policing the game for the betterment of ALL players instead of todays flavor of the week obsession by one of the self-described golden boys.

5: Something we agree on. When one is found to have an alt, I'm perfectly fine with giving the main account the ban hammer as well. I can even name a few high levels that would no longer be around.

6: Nice try but the reality of what was stated was that no one can enforce the TOU. Nothing has been promised to anyone here. Including the achievements you've so vigorously campaigned for. As an aside, I have to figure that if there's any misunderstanding on my part you have to blame your own sub-standard writing ability. Lucid thoughts put together in cogent sentences don't have these kinds of communication breakdowns. It's perfectly understandable if there's a language barrier of some sort but I don't think it's too much to ask that someone whose native language is English grasps the basic concepts of communicating over a written medium.

7: You already tried playing with me tonight for having the temerity to disagree with you. Big deal. Your effort caused me one death versus the ten times that I kicked your sword away. LOL! You seem to think I'm totally against any more achievements. I'm not. You're level 20k+ and I think you should get some more achievements eventually. I'm just against the idea that they should be a priority simply because one person wants to give their best Veruca Salt impersonation. Next thing you know, you'll be screaming "Kano, I want an Oompah Loompah and I want an oompah loompah NOWWWwww!!!!" Get over yourself. You can wait just like everyone else. Your achievements will get here eventually. Hopefully, Kano will have gotten rid of a high number of cheaters by then.

 

Actually, can't bother reading or replying to the above post. Its an ad hominem attack in nature.

Here are some tips:

Read the announcement.
Read more what experienced high levels state.
Learn the game.
Have fun.
Have good friends.
And throw out and ignore the trash.

 

While I appreciate the fact that you two managed to keep your discussion mostly civil, we're getting a little far from the beaten path for this thread. The wish for high-level achievements has been received loud and clear, and if you want to read Kendall's thing on it, feel free to visit this thread here. For now, though, I'm locking this one.