[LCN] PvP Balance Change v2 - October 4th 2017

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Scoughman, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    First of all, I was never talking to you or about you personally. Second...I understand the game. I don't really need you to explain things to me. I understand what each of the skills does for my character, I understand that I get to choose where to allocate skill points, and I built my character exactly the way I wanted based on game parameters...except now my character is not what I built...it is something else because Kano decided they didn't like the way some players were approaching the game. Based on the parameter changes, I am guessing it will take me a year or more to re-balance my character to the way I intended, and was before the change. And the frustration is the if I (we) re-balance my character, Kano will more likely than not change it again. All your advice and explaining doesn't mean shit. We can't build our characters the way we want if the target is always moving. When I literally go from winning a fight to loosing the same fight by 50% or more from one minute to the next, which is what happened to my character, then how you build your character is irrelevant. And with regard to my comment about long time players...my comments were not directed at individual players, but rather the community at large. And my comments are based on observation of chat rooms and player comments.
     
  2. Angel or Not

    Angel or Not Member

    I wasnt being disrespectful to you or anyone, and I was going by the community posts as well as yours, there are many posts on both sides ... gonna put my big girl pants on and make lemonade outta lemons.. my game is affected as well but it has changed for the better imo ....skills should always mean more... the change is long overdue, and increasing the change slowly is givin everyone a chance to adjust...kudo's to Kano for continuing to make the game more challenging and fresh :) sorry if I offended you..it was not my intention!!
     
  3. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    I took no offence or disrespect. But you did address me directly as if I was speaking directly to or about you. I don't find changes of this sort as keeping the game fresh or more challenging. Again, people build their characters according to the game. These kind of wholesale changes means that my character, as well as yours and every other player, is not as intended. The result is some will benefit from poor decisions, and others with be punished for good decisions based on what each player intended for their character. If I change my game play to bring my attack and defense to a balance I intended, I give up some ability to level up. If they change it down the road to take back the changes, then I will be weakened AND not have the ability to level up. Not knowing which direction future changes will take makes it impossible to build a character they way I would like and have confidence that my character will continue to be what I built. Some may find chasing their tail is fresh and challenging, but I do not.
     
  4. Angel or Not

    Angel or Not Member

    thanks :) I feel better now, you know the old sayin about opinions...we all have one...we just agree to disagree, I wish you well in the game!!
     
  5. Jack, we are NOT saying that att/def SP should be dominant, what we are saying is that they have become outdated as people have spent to buy stronger weapons ... once upon a time, you LIVED to craft stronger weapons with boss, job, and challenge drops. But the crafted items are useless against bought weapons as the bought weapons are by FAR stronger than the items that you can craft. As a whole, the items that you have to do bosses, jobs and challenges for needs to be reworked, if for no other reason than the time that it takes you to complete such achievements. And the items that you craft should take into account the att/def for the items that you use to craft them. Skill points ARE important, but they have to be factored in with the items att/def as well, and that has fallen by the wayside as people are spending more and more and more just so they can say "I beat so - n - so". Yes, it is a fighting game, but it needs to be on even ground, not an uphill battle. Have I spent on the game, yes. But NOTHING compared to what some have spent. I WAS an energy heavy account until I got tired of getting beat on and started working on my att/def and crafting everything I can from my stockpile. So yes, spend money, but also use what is WITHIN the game. The workshop is a GREAT friend when you help every mob member that you are allowed to help.
     
  6. DumbDumb

    DumbDumb Member

    Kano confirmed on their tgif post that they further plan on obliterating the benefit of weapons. There really is no reason to purchase them anymore. So much for building balanced accts. Just add skill points to attack and defense folks. Also, those trying to build weapon strenght via high level bosses. Go for xp ratios (lower bosses) instead. I do hope they stop giving full skill point benefit to less than full mobs for those of you that were screwed on that too

    For those of you that bought weapons a year or more ago, you will be penalized heavier. lol, karma.
     
  7. Smack

    Smack Kano Krusader

    I think you are putting the cart before the horse in terms of "obliterating" weapons. (see I can quote hyperbole too :D) We've been transparent about our intention to increase the emphasis on Att/Def skills but that doesn't mean we're aiming jump back to Monday's change. We do encourage investment in these skills though moving forward as that will benefit you right now and can't hurt for future.

    We've learned a lot this week with this PvP rollout and we certainly don't want to re live that anytime soon. We are not closing the door to future changes but it is all dependent on the state of the game and the state of PvP in general. For now we are going to let the current changes settle in and monitor the data and feedback.
     
  8. DumbDumb

    DumbDumb Member

    Smack, I really dont believe that I am. I get the concept that older accts are upset because some of is newer accounts are built with all GF weapons. Yes, we have skills too. Boss drops are useless to a small handful of us. But we had that option and took advantage of it. Some of these older accounts built similar, but didnt keep up with the times so they fell behind. They feel their money was wasted, even though they still beat a vast majority of the game. Some older accounts still buy new stuff and are powerhouses. The problem has always existed where the benefit we got was wiped out due to new stuff. We built balanced accounts, strong on skills and weapons, and Kano plans on further reducing the benefits of weapons in the equation. Thus there is literally no incentive, other than short term, to keep buying weapons. Or for others to do high level bosses. The writing is on the wall to only level to get skills. To make lop sided skill accounts. If you cant win, and get xp in the process, either spend like crazy or hang it up. It can take some thousands upon thousands of levels to adjust their accounts to where this is all heading.

    We all built, new and old, according to how the game mechanics were. This planned steady march, in the end will only further reward those that can afford to spend (namely raids) and making everyone else obsolete, with little practical chance to truly fix their accounts to where you feel they should be - unless they spend A LOT. Leaving them frustrated and helpless, and ultimately likely to quit. I dont relish spending money on a game that results in player attrition due to developer miscalculations. Been there done that.

    There were a lot unexpected consequences for a great many accounts; new and old. Hopefully, for your and all of our sakes you all dont rush to change like you did this time. There is a lot of renewed bad blood out there again. We came from a game that was significantly more expensive. Switching tactics to level now isnt a big deal, any "benefit " realized by higher levels will be temporary. A few will fine, like I said there are a couple powerhouses. The ones that arent will continue complaining about raids. Are those next on the tweaking block? If so, you strip away peoples best opportunity to adjust their accounts due to the direction you have articulated.

    The point we are at now is if we all feel we can trust you to not make massive "corrections" that alienate players - of all vintages. No one I know trusts you enough to purchase weapons anymore. Sans a onesie twosie purchase for loadout.
     
    Smack and ReeferC like this.
  9. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    Why is it people feel the need to explain the game. I am not stupid. I understand the game. And how hard is it really to understand my simple point that players build characters based on the game rules, and if the game makers change the rules whenever they feel like it, there is no way to have a character the way you want it, whether you are spending a lot of money, and little money or no money at all. And all RPGs are pay to win...that's why people spend money. If someone wants to spend $10,000 to have a stronger character than you, Kano and all the other RPGs are more than happy to oblige. If I was inclined to spend that much and wasn't allowed a stronger character, then spending money is a complete waste and nobody would do it. I get that it's pay to win, and he who spends the most gets the most, whether you have been playing for 8 years or 8 months And I am OK with it. But if I was thousands of dollars into this game and had my character just how I wanted it, and then it's not because Kano changed the rules, I wouldn't be so happy.
     
  10. FancyPants

    FancyPants Member

    Crafting? OMG. I haven't crafted in well over a year. I'm level 2570 and there's nothing to craft that would improve any of my inventory not even by 1 point. In fact, I have to wait until I get to level 6,000 before there's a vehicle worth crafting, level 8,200 for a weapon, and level 8,520 for an armor. I am sure by the time I get halfway there, those items won't be helpful.

    Crafting needs an overhaul and while it was nice that elites dropped down in levels, optimals need to drop a few thousand as well.

    And none of that helps if your SP is out of whack.
     
    Sir Opinion Alot likes this.
  11. EXACTLY Fancy .... the crafting IS out of whack ... and HAS been for a WHILE now
     
  12. Smack

    Smack Kano Krusader

    @DumbDumb that's a lot to take in but I appreciate the breadth of your reply. You touch on many relevant concerns with the state of this game given its longevity and the mix of play styles.

    I'd like to respond more to your post when we get back to the office after the long weekend but I did want to acknowledge that I hear what your saying.

    All of this feedback from our community is invaluable.
     
    FancyPants likes this.
  13. Marshal Yeatts

    Marshal Yeatts New Member

    You came with all the pretty charts and graphs saying you knew what to do. You didn’t. So you “overreached somewhat” but have “tweaked it substantially”. Anybody else see the code for we put it back the way it was? Now you tell us to put SPs into what ended us up at the bottom of the fighting food chain AGAIN? How gullible and stupid do you think we are? Fix the discrepancy now! You’ve had the 5 years I’ve been playing to nullify our abilities, and we want action yesterday on YOUR mistakes.
     
  14. DumbDumb

    DumbDumb Member

    It wasnt put back to where it was before, I'm sure it is different for everyone but I have lost about 25% of my weapons benefit. My math needs a few more examples to where I am comfortable saying that with any doubt - but so far appears accurate
     
  15. Deadly Walker

    Deadly Walker Member

    Crafting is a thing of the past. I haven't been able to craft meaningfully in a couple of years. I went the fighter route and built my A and D. Still lose to the Credit Card Warriors, but I don't care, it's just a clicky game which I use to pass the time with. I spent heavily early on and I actually thought of it as an investment. I was wrong. Don't put too much stock in the game, it will drive you mad and they will cut their losses one day and shut it down, just like some other games have done. All of these games are finite.
     
  16. Randy Jenkins

    Randy Jenkins Member

    personal skill should always beat out loot. given players the option of just buying loot to make themselves strong there is no challenge in it except who has the deepest pockets.skill should be the main factor in if a player wins or loses
     
  17. Sargeinmi

    Sargeinmi New Member

    Show me anywhere "change the rules" i have never saw anywhere if you spend alot of money you will win and be strong. Good grief it is a MOBSTER GAME, ATT and DEF SHOULD PLAY A MAJOR PART!!!!
     
  18. Sir Opinion Alot

    Sir Opinion Alot Well-Known Member

    to offset the spenders they need craftable items that are very close in stats if your stats for job item, and boss drops rewards are 1/3rd the strength you would have to carry 3 times the skill points placed in att and def and they would have to carry very low in those areas the problem is the items that was free was just as good as bought items yrs ago and the recent yrs last half of the game they changed the stats way to fast and now is the out come and kano can not expect the non payers to pay to even have a chance if you would like this app to live you should changed the stats on crafting items and job drops you would think being in the top city would give out all the top items at the time for the game, but no its all about who can spend 100,000 or more this has got to be a rich man game now, its a sad day, you guys should play a normal account one that hasnt spent alot and see what everyone is talking about.....
     
    LuscLadyGreywolf likes this.
  19. Rob352

    Rob352 New Member

    Think about it, Kano says add to att/def to get stronger, fine, so is everyone else. Loot means crap. If an account is 500 levels above you that is 2500 skills. The way the skills are waited now there is no chance in hell to beat them. It has made the game totally boring to the point of not playing and it has been only a week. The health damage when losing is wacked to where a level 4k does the damage of a level 13k. (I am 2800) The big spenders will buy enough loot to off set the change and the rest are done for. I have seen this before in Mafia Wars. Pretty soon the best spenders will be here and the rest of the people will quit leaving no one to attack but their friends. So sad.
     
    ReeferC and Sir Opinion Alot like this.
  20. FancyPants

    FancyPants Member

    Take 2 players in the same fight range, both allocating skill points in the same manner:

    upload_2017-10-11_13-6-56.png

    Player B will have more skill points to allocate as they earned them from leveling and completing more jobs. Player A will eventually get there, but will always then lose to higher players (in their range) just because they cannot earn the skill points without leveling.

    When players have the same skill points allocation, then inventory becomes into play. And it seems, to a much lesser extent now, so does loadout.

    The above example is how a player (b) with inferior inventory can now beat another player (a) with superior inventory. This de-incentivizes players to build their inventory. It becomes all about skill points.

    IMO, it should be a balance of skill points, loadout, overall inventory in use.
     

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