Limit on Gifts

Ok..so basically your logic is that we are being limited? We have all this crafting available to us yet not enough gifts to keep up?

Do u apply the same logic to every other aspect of the games as well? Lets take attacking for an example shall we? We Level level level and amass as much high powered inventory as we can...why? Arent we in fact "limited" by our level? How about the arena? Are u ok with the fact that its handicapped? Whats the point of getting uber strong if we are only to be reigned in? How about the bounty delay? Is it cool that that if one is successful at bounty hunting the game imposes a delay in an effort to slow one down? How about bosses? Is it ok that the owner of a boss can no longer decide to just give it away without doing a minimum amount of damage themselves? How about achievements....is it fine and dandy that the majority are designed for the masses and that dont actually reward excelling in a particular category? How about slaps? Are we not "limited" by the health of the opposing player? No matter how strong we get the less powerful the player we slap...the lesser the damage....does that make sense? My question for u is this...do u apply the same logic your using to increase gift sends to the entire game or just this particular aspect?


Are u getting my point yet because I can keep going. These games in their entirety are "limited" and no part of them "keeps up" with its players. Why should gifts of all things be different? On top of all that....it would be completely detrimental to the higher level players over time. Sy, but Im not cool with that

 

Rebuttals for the polish pimp...

The Limit was created based on some type of ratio or Algorithm, so whatever it was originally based on, it should remain based upon the same formulas they use to make sure there is balance in the games, Kano did not pull a rabbit out of its behind that had 100 written on it and say "pluck" here it is, it says 100. If you remember the 1st limit was 50 in vc and pc was 100, then they raised the limit (They DOUBLED IT how absurd , it wasnt absurd then) so it made sense to adjust it before it may be worth looking into, AGAIN. As for lifting limits on other things, you made that statement in your prior post about "I could think of a lot of other limits that shoued be raised or lifted all together way more than gifts" thats your statement that you feel other things should be raised, now in this comment you just switched your position?? im confused so please do not place words in my mouth for a sub concience Freudian slip, lets stay on topic and leave the other items you tossed into the arena for debate from left field, in left field.
topic: gifting limits, now if you feel like mentioning what else you would like raised also maybe we can petition Kano to multi task and look at more than one item. As far as the other items are concerned we can save that debate for another thread.

Sending Gifts is NOT required, i can request gifts and not return them and it will not negate any XP. Daily gamer points can be accomplished w/o gifting at all. So if it doesnt affect GP's or XP, then its an optional part of the game, therefore SENDING GIFTS which was the point from my prior post (HAGAR said he does not send gifts b/c he is lazy) SENDING is a courtesy, thats why its called a GIFT, someone sent you something they did not have to.
HOMEWORK how much homework does it take to craft THE STRONGEST ITEMS. The only homework needed is for the elites and legendaries which we now have reverse crafting (which we did not have in the begining) and does not require gifts.

How does raising gift limits put a game on auto pilot?? thats a stretch, 100 gifts no auto pilot raise limit, auto pilot kicks in??
Being able to send a few more gifts to a lower level now creates an unfair advantage, yeah that extra 100 gifts will really send them over the top, after all look what damage it did when they went from 50 to 100, all heck broke loose, not the fact that they can have elite upper level bosses shared with them with drops we didnt have access to at their level, yep its the gift lol
Now if we raise gifts this will increase alts?? (So when they raised gifts from 50 to 100 that was the trigger that started alts?? for the one extra gift a person would get?? I thought it was for attacking other people and bounties but im glad you cleared that up, it was gifting all along) PS if they where that anal, they are already doing it.
This is not mafia wars where people had alts b/c they gift could gift weapons and drops and people in 3rd world countries opened alts collected items and sold their accounts and items with real value to the game for USD$ (CASH) through paypal.
Kano does not allow that.
Help my game in particular, you caught me, its a conspiracy i was the only one in the game that would benefit wow you are good, "if it wasnt for these medling kids i would have gotten away with it too". A lil to much Scooby Doo??
if i only wanted kano to increase my limits then that would be acurate, but if my rivals and all in/out of range players have the same access, it doesnt give one individual an edge over the entire game. All will benefit equally

 

Remember to always plan ahead...

Nobody is fighting, this is all healthy debate, but i would like to see the list of things that you have put all that advanced thought into when you stated theres a list of other things that should be lifted,

i would appreciate if you would enlighten us w/the specific list as opposed to the general statement in your prior post. So we can debate that as well. What other limits need to be lifted in order to have the gifts make sense.

As far as gifts go for me personally having a benefit from this, i'm only level 5k+ i already have 500-1k of each gift i need to craft all the blacksmith items for the next 2k levels, i started collecting higher crafting items from level 1k, VC seems to craft from behind, levels you passed, VC crafts combinations of adventure drops that last a long time before crafting makes sense. when they fall out of play you're 1k levels past the mission drops. So the fact is im at 100% w/zero outstanding items to be crafted, and it looks like it will stay that way for the next 2k levels if im still here. PC you actively crafting as you hit the level your on.

My issue with crafting is not having enough gifts, its the coin needed to craft, the higher you go the more expensive these items cost, over 1 trillion per item, so as far as this being the game changer for me personally, it doesnt affect my game at all. Anyone with upper level clan members will be told, start grabbing the items you will need in the future for crafting, NOW. But i love competition and i would like to see weak players gettin stronger, lighting fires under the feet of the lazy and content.

As for your ability to plan ahead and foresee things in advance before they happen. "I get the feeling that supporters of this idea did not think it through all the way". For those of us (like me) that dont think of the impact on end results (collateral damage). you should check your vision of the game... You would not be stating " I run out of gift sends nearly every day and have dealt with it since day one.. " and are afraid of a rookie catching you . You would have been ahead of the crafting curve... like me So the odds are, whatever you thought of.. so did we, nobody has to strain brains, we got it covered, its just a gift, not a nail file in a cake lol like i said not a fight, just a debate.

 

remain humble in victory.......

Still waiting on your list to be put out for open debate,
you run out of gifts when others are stock piled for the next 2k levels, you can improve your fore thoughts and your crafting. it seems you would have an opportunity to fix the mistakes in gifting you made in the past and catch up with those of us that had the "idea" to stockpile 2k levels of crafting in advance.

just as people have ideas, there are people with a gazillion opinions and you know what they say about opinions.. and sometimes those opinions come from people that are angry because others disagree w/them or because they're either selfish/self centered, think they're smarter than everyone else and/or dont care the NEGATIVE implication/repercussions they thought the idea would have on other players or the game as a whole...doesnt exsist, or they're embarrassed when someone points out how lil the fore thought went into their gameplay and their opinion.

Now i am not taking pokes at everyone who voices an opinion just b/c they can, im just pointing out, not all of them are mindless, some are still getting the hang of the game and learning how to navigate the waters, so there opinion will be a lil in left field. They may play devils advocate b/c of an underlying issue, maybe afraid of change itself or the competition the change may bring. Change can be good and so is competition, embrace it, encourage it, nuture it. the downside sometimes parents lie to their kids and tell them everyones a winner and then find out, everyone cant win, everyone doesnt get a trophy and last place isnt the last winner, its last place. And yes for someone to win someone loses..and there is no downside to learning how to lose with dignity b/c that teaches us how to remain humble.......even in victory...

 

Darn it! I thought for awhile there I was gonna get to pull out ye olde Willie Shakespeare quote "I would challenge to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed!" but ya had to thwart my dastardly plan with the Scooby Doo remark.

"The Limit was created based on some type of ratio or Algorithm"

Ok...I'll bite because I know that most things Kano does they do with "balance" in mind first and foremost. Ill even agree that its very likely they didnt just pull the number 100 out of a hat. Happy? What Im having a hard time understanding however is this....If this is true and you believe it to be true then where on earth did you come up with the number of 250...a hat? Surely a person as knowledgeable about such things wouldn't do that ...or would they? I will give you credit though...at least u nixed the idea of unlimited gifts. I also cant help but wonder why Kano hasn't already increased the number of gifts...this is certainly not the first time this idea has been brought up and its certainly garnered some player support...i wonder if it has anything to do with those "Algorithms" you speak of? No doubt Kano has to keep the "ratio or algorithms" in mind when it comes to the number of gifts.... but is it just me that thinks they would need to be just as judicious when it comes to Blacksmithing? Perhaps they would even need to consider both considering one would certainly seem to affect the other....no? If indeed both the original numbers of 50 then 100 was based in some regard to the number of players than I suppose they would need to do the same if if they were to entertain the idea of increasing said numbers....no? I dont have specific numbers to quote but I feel pretty secure in suggesting that the player count was higher than it is now both when the gift limit was raised and when the blacksmith was first introduced. If indeed Im correct....would that not mean the numbers should be adjusted down? After all....its all about the ratio and algorithms...right? Another thing one might want to consider is that Kano keeps things pretty darn similar from one platform to the next, yet the number of players from one platform from the next is as diff as night and day is it not? I cant help but wonder how they pulled that one off. In the end bud...if your opening statements are accurate than they numbers should be dialed back not more than doubled.


In regards to your remarks about my statement of .."I could think of a lot of other limits that should be raised or lifted all together way more than gifts"" . I stand by it 100% and don't see it as contradictory in any sense of the word. Theres a big difference between screwing with the balance of the games and throttling someone because Kano believes when a small handful of players excel much more at a particular aspect than others it discourages the masses. For an example (1 of many)Because a player excels at bounty hunting does not screw with the balance of the game. Where as inserting new content that potentially benefits one sect of the player population more than another into a mature game most definitely screws with the balance. Increasing the number of gifts at this stage of the game definitely falls into that category. Low level players can potentially level faster than a higher level. When one considers that much crafting needs boss and adventure drops....it puts the lesser level player at a distinct advantage if they so choose to go that route.


"Sending Gifts is NOT required"


Wth does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Nothing in these games is required every single thing you do is a choice. Since when is gamer points a requirement? Because you "chose" a guild that mandates them because they are competing for the trophy?
"i can request gifts and not return them and it will not negate any XP". Well...ITguess that depends on how you look at things now doesnt it? It certainly isnt going to cost u any XP but what about they player that sent you a gift and u didnt return the favor? Im sure that in most cases there was was a reasonable expectation or least hope that that you would send one back...no? Gifts are used to craft or in some cases used in inventory...no? When it comes to bosses the stronger u are means more damage which equates to more XP...no? So I guess it could be argued that by not sending that gift back u "negated" some XP for that player....no? now other players that previously posted in this thread might argue that all the more reason to increase the number of gifts we can send. Its been argued that it "sucks" or that its even "unfair" that they might receive more gifts than they can possible return. Remember when I spoke of "auto pilot"? These games are chuck full of tough decisions....one of them might very well be which 100 players to return gifts to out of the 250 received. Its choices/decision such as this and the countless others that separates us as individual players in a game that is largely based on hard numbers. The reality of these games is that there are only a certain amount of numbers that can be possibly obtained in regards to SP and other critical factors such as total attack and defense. The rest of the game is determined by our choices, perhaps none of which are more important than the social aspect....deciding who to clan with and who gets what.....these are the tough decision that separate us from one another and makes the game much less monotonous. The more gifts u allow the less difficult the decisions.....that much closer to autopilot.


"HOMEWORK how much homework does it take to craft THE STRONGEST ITEMS. The only homework needed is for the elites and legendaries which we now have reverse crafting (which we did not have in the begining) "

Theres no aspect of these games that require being a rocket scientist but I thinks it pretty safe to assume that other than the social aspect for some that blacksmithing would involve the most thought process or at least is the most involved aspect of the games for the common player. For starters it wasnt until fairly recently that Kano simplified things in terms of smithing with the addition of the "battle strength" numbers on our profile pages. But even with this addition its still quite apparent that a large number of players still struggle with the crafting aspect...including some high ranking players. There is a vast diversity of players that play these games I also think to say that a large portion of them are not exactly the "sharpest tools in the shed". This proposed increase iof gifts s for the benefit of the masses correct? Not quite sure why u think making elite or legendary items requires more work than crafting....both need to be equally determined in the optimization process dependent on ones individual build. Unless of course u are just crafting every thing .....but thats just another ridiculous wasteful story for another time.

"yeah that extra 100 gifts will really send them over the top, after all look what damage it did when they went from 50 to 100,"

Oh boy, your really getting sloppy now. For starters the number u suggested was 250...thats an increase of 150 "A DAY" compared to 50....thats 3X the amount...what happened to your ratios and algorithms? YES...without a doubt this would send a decent player "over the top". A feat that could not even come close to being matched by the much higher leveled player for the reasons listed previously.


"not the fact that they can have elite upper level bosses shared with them with drops we didnt have access to at their level, yep its the gift lol"

There is indeed an advantage to be had by lower levels over the highest of levels in that lower levels can get on "elite bosses" of their higher level clan (once again ...social aspect choices). By the time the lower levels that get to the level in which they get their own "elite bosses" they will already have a head start on the end rewards if indeed the higher level shares their bosses. But when one considers that bosses are limited to A) every couple of days and B) the willingness of others to share.... the number of end rewards from these "elite bosses" are pretty insignificant when compared to the current number of 100 gifts per day and down right minuscule when compared to the proposed number of 250 gifts per day. As far as random boss drops go lets not forget that the drop rate is nearly nonexistent for a player hitting a boss that they themselves have not yet qualified for (in terms of their own boss).


"Now if we raise gifts this will increase alts?? "

Im sure you noticed I used the words "potential alt abuse"....right? Perhaps your not familiar with the lengths some players will go to for an edge? Alts are used for everything regardless of their main focus. These players are cheats it doesnt matter if its 1 or 100 they use them to gain any advantage they can, Think of an alt as a commercial cow...every last bit of them is used from their hooves to their brains in order to make a profit...the same holds true for an alt but its an edge rather than profit. Dont fool yourself...I dont consider alts being the biggest of the issues when it comes to the ridiculous increase your proposing....just another reason on top of many others why its a bad and poorly thought out idea. "PS if they where that anal, they are already doing it." ....do u know that they arent? Who knows....maybe they dont need to at this point and more than doubling the current amount will give them incentive.

"Help my game in particular, you caught me, its a conspiracy i was the only one in the game that would benefit wow you are good"

I see you like to quote things out of context...thats cute. My statement was clearly in reference to how one feels about limits in general, . I was merely inquiring whether or not you or the others felt the same about out other limiting factors of the game or was it just this particular topic.

"All will benefit equally"


That is simply the most ignorant thing you said in your entire post....well maybe the second most ignorant thing........Theres no such thing as "too much Scooby Doo"


Dont see much point in discussing this further....its obvious we wont be agreeing about this anytime soon. Kano has our input and will do what they deem appropriate and we will have to deal with it either way. Until the next time...Take care and Have fun!

 

OH gees.

If you are only a level 5k and have nothing to do for the next 2k levels....I dont know what to tell ya other than you need to figure some things out u apparently havent figured out yet. As far as coin issues....bummer...should have planned ahead.

WHo said anything about a fight?

Afraid? i think concern over an advantage given to others would be more appropriate.

What ever ...ive played these games from nearly day one and have enjoyed more success than arguably any other player... I get the feeling Im not the one behind the curve

 

"Still waiting on your list to be put out for open debate,"


Im not going to derail this thread. My opinions and thoughts on these games from A-Z are everywhere in these forums...knock yourself out.

"you run out of gifts when others are stock piled for the next 2k levels,"


lol....your funny. I run out of gifts to send not that I have received. If u are playing only 2k levels ahead at level 5k u have much to learn. Myself....Im languishing in the well springs (my second time to the end of the game BTW)


The rest of your post is comical at best....

 

I'm not answering for VipCEO, but I never suggested 250 gifts. I started this & personally I would be happy with a 50 increase again.

papabear5.7 said no limit & Jonny Markis said 250, not me.

I asked for a reasonable Limit, I never said a number.

 

Ok...point noted. My apologies if I implied you stated an actual number. Often times When replying I have the tendency to address more than one person which confuses things....my bad.

50 is definitely a more reasonable number, some suggestions by others were way out in left field....lol. I would be interested in hearing Kanos take on this issue...not just a yea or nea but some actual reasoning behind their stance.

 

After reading this entire thread, which took nearly as much time as it does to send 100 gifts per day, I have to say my vote is a resounding NO!! I do not play Viking Clan so that I can spend my time sending gifts for hours each day. Yes, it is much better than it was in myspace where I rarely sent 100 per day, but it is still not an activity worth extending for several reasons, time being only one of those.

Since Polish has already explained eloquently how increasing the number of gift sends would negatively impact the game with little or no benefit to the game, I won't bother to repeat them. Well done, Polish and thank you for saving me the time.

 

"After reading this entire thread, which took nearly as much time as it does to send 100 gifts per day, I have to say my vote is a resounding NO!! I do not play Viking Clan so that I can spend my time sending gifts for hours each day. Yes, it is much better than it was in myspace where I rarely sent 100 per day, but it is still not an activity worth extending for several reasons, time being only one of those. "

WOW You must be a really SLOW clicker! LOL If returning 100 gifts takes you as long as reading all the posts in this thread...You have to be a slow clicker!

"Since Polish has already explained eloquently how increasing the number of gift sends would negatively impact the game with little or no benefit to the game, I won't bother to repeat them. Well done, Polish and thank you for saving me the time. "

Granted I am probably wrong, but I am guessing he was thinking of a much higher number than 50, although I still don't see the "damage" as inventory becomes obsolete. I have tons of inventory that is absolutely useless to me in Battle.

Let's get real, Kano is not about to raise ANY limit whether it is gifts or anything else a large amount all at once. Just wouldn't makes sense, since they have never done it before.

I said at the beginning of this, I am asking for a Reasonable amount raise, nothing more, nothing less. IF they decide to raise the Gift Limit, THEY will determine the amount no matter what.

And from the looks of the poll, more people would be happy if the Limit were raised.

And if they don't raise the Limit, more people will be unhappy, than the ones who want it to stay the same.

So far Majority Rules in the Vote as with any other Poll, You never please Everybody.

 

Just a quick note to make my point.

I have 5 Hrs to before my 24 Hrs are up & I can return Gifts. As of this very moment I have received 98 Gifts so far.

You can bet your boots I will receive more than 2 gifts in 5 Hrs time.

I NEVER ask for a Gift, I just have my Wish List.

 

I hate gifting. I hate the entire process. So time consuming. However, i need to do it for crafting reasons so I plow through it. Instead of an increase I would rather see a streamlining of the entire process. In fact, perhaps it can be worked in with the proposed increase.

 

Ive no doubt that the vast majority of players if asked the simple question..."would you like more gifts to be available ?"..would say yes. The simple fact is that most people dont think things through completely...they think...oh that would help me...with no thought of other ramifications or others. Gifts may seem like one of the more innocuous things in these games but the simple truth is that like most every thing else its has much more of an impact than first meets the eye. Think of gifts as a low grade of gasoline.....the car is still going to run fabulously to the untrained eye but without a doubt over time its going to have a negative impact on that car. Or perhaps think of it as the ripple effect Or the proverbial snowball .....narrow in scope/range and innocent looking enough in the beginning....but in he end it covers a much larger area and u dont want to be the guy standing at the bottom of the hill.

 

When it was raised from 50 to 100 it didn't have any detrimental effects. You talk about lower levels "saving up" gifts. So what? They still have to pay for the crafting which gets more expensive as you level up. And as I have been saying, most of your inventory becomes obsolete anyways, so they will have tons of obsolete crafting just like everyone else.

And no matter how you look at it, the higher levels will always be that much ahead of the lower levels.

Sorry, but I just can't understand your point that raising the Gift Limit would do a lot of harm.

 

With a handful of exceptions (Steel Sword at level 620, Aurora Spear at level 2000, Fist of Heaven at level 2200, Autumn's Hammer at level 2500 and Sunstrike Mace at level 3200) the need for two gifts to craft one item doesn't really kick in till level 3650.

So, if a player under that level can receive 100 gifts per day and only need one gift to craft most items, perhaps increasing the number of gifts to send AND receive should instituted as a level achievement bonus at somewhere around level 3600.

Essentially I will vote YES for an increase, but only a modest one. 50 maybe.

For those of you who don't want a gift increase because you don't want to waste any more of your precious time helping your clan mates grow stronger all I can say is "You're not doing it right". Start at the bottom of the list, work your way up, accept 20 at a time bottom to top, then click send from top to bottom. You can be through all 100 in under 2 minutes. TWO MINUTES TOPS. And that's on FB. Its even faster on Kanoplay!

 

how about being able to return a gift after receiving one no matter how many youve sent out? is that not a reasonable solution to this?

 

I actually like this idea a lot... I normally hit the limit of 100 each day without a problem, this way I could send out a modest increase (maybe 120 or so gifts a day) if I wanted to... I still think we should not be able to send more than one gift to the same player each day...

 

the multiple gifts to the same person each day doesnt bother me, its just the not being able to return the favor after i hit 100

 

This is EXACTLY my point! I want to be able to return the gifts that I receive! I'm not worried about sending multiple gifts to 1 person in 1 day. I just want to be able to send 1 gift to each person that sends to me! Each day I have a lot of people who do not get gifts returned to them, and I'm not talking about just 1 or 2 either!

And just to be clear, I am only asking for a increase in the Gift Limit, nothing else.

As I said before, I never said a number, that is up to Kano.